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Poster: billbarstad Date: Sep 13, 2011 4:11pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

The US doesn't respect the laws of other countries, per se. That's why we have treaties like GATT.

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Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 13, 2011 4:33pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Do you have the treaties mixed up?
GATT (which was the a General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade) is not the treaty I was referring to.
The Berne Convention requires its signatories to recognize the copyrights of Works of authors from other signatory countries in the same way as it recognizes the copyrights of its own nationals."
The US has been a signatory member of the Berne Convention since March 1, 1989

"The US doesn't respect the laws of other countries, per se"
Seriously? Hows that possible?

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Poster: billbarstad Date: Sep 13, 2011 5:46pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Not sure what you're on about. I Don't really care to know what. You seem to understand that there are international treaties, and that's good.

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Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 13, 2011 5:59pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

And you seem to misunderstand the treaties, good for you!

This post was modified by jory2 on 2011-09-14 00:59:18

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Poster: billbarstad Date: Sep 13, 2011 6:09pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Since I didn't write word one about any treaty...well why waste my time.

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Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 13, 2011 6:22pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

"The US doesn't respect the laws of other countries, per se. That's why we have treaties like GATT."

You wrote the above, are you ok?

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Poster: billbarstad Date: Sep 13, 2011 6:34pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Your just getting sadder and sadder. Stop embarrassing yourself.

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Poster: larus Date: Sep 14, 2011 3:45am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

GATT (which was the a General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade) is not the treaty I was referring to.
The Berne Convention requires its signatories to recognize the copyrights of Works of authors from other signatory countries in the same way as it recognizes the copyrights of its own nationals."
The US has been a signatory member of the Berne Convention since March 1, 1989


The issue is that the Berne convention did not protect works that were public domain in the US as of March 1, 1989 because of a lack of compliance with US copyright law, even if they were still under copyright in their home country. This is expressed in Section 12 of the Berne Convention Implementation
Act of 1988
:
Title 17, United States Code, as amended by this Act, does not provide copyright protection for any work that is in the public domain in the United States.

Before the Berne Implementation Act, US copyright protection was not automatic and had to be opted in via the following steps:
(a)inclusion of a copyright notice in the published work according to a strict format
(b)registration with the US Copyright Office, such registration granting a 28-year copyright term
(c)renewal registration with the US Copyright Office in the 28th year following the original registration, which granted an additional copyright term for the work

Running afoul of any of these requirements would result in the work becoming public domain, for example by:
-omitting the copyright notice
-including an invalid notice (for example by using (C) in the notice instead of © or the word copyright)
-not filing for a renewal (which would cause the work to enter the public domain at the end of the original 28-year term)
-filing for the renewal too early (before the last year of the original term) or too late (after the end of the original term)

This is why Bill mentioned GATT. The purpose of the 1994 Uruguay Rounds Agreements Act (URAA) amendments to GATT was to restore protection to foreign works still under copyright in their country of origin but that had become public domain in the US because of non-compliance with the unique intricacies of US copyright protection.
But there were still exceptions. For example, foreign works published in the US within 30 days of publication in their home country are exempted from copyright restoration under URAA.

http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm is a good primer on the copyright status of works based on publication date and other factors.

This post was modified by larus on 2011-09-14 10:45:20

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Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 14, 2011 6:36am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

hey larus, I'm familiar with the WTO, copyrights and intellectual property is my field of study.
What Bill had wrote was, "The US doesn't respect the laws of other countries, per se. That's why we have treaties like GATT." which as you know is completely false.
Why it became two boys pissing on a tree I have no idea?
Hopefully Bill will read your post and be better informed without further misinterpretations.

larus the link you provided, http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm , 'Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States', deals with public domain. Unfortunately this website does not just publish public domain content.




This post was modified by jory2 on 2011-09-14 13:36:19

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Poster: larus Date: Sep 15, 2011 12:27am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

hey larus, I'm familiar with the WTO, copyrights and intellectual property is my field of study.
Then I apologize about lecturing you. I was under the impression that you thought all works were covered by the Berne Implementation act regardless of whether they were published in the US before or after the act became effective. Discussions held on this board tend to revolve around the copyright status of films that are several decades old and this has become my frame of reference by default.

What Bill had wrote was, "The US doesn't respect the laws of other countries, per se. That's why we have treaties like GATT." which as you know is completely false.
I don't know that it is completely false. What I do know is that US copyright is determined by US law, not foreign law. And although works published after March 1st, 1989 enjoy automatic US copyright protection for many decades to come, the situation for works published before that date remains a murky mess where copyright notices, registrations, renewals and URAA come into play. The latter case is what most discussions on this board revolve around.

Hopefully Bill will read your post and be better informed without further misinterpretations.
Bill has been on this board for years and already knows what I summarized, which can be confirmed by a look at his posting history.

larus the link you provided, http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm , 'Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States', deals with public domain. Unfortunately this website does not just publish public domain content.
The presence of copyrighted content on the site is something that regular contributors are unhappy about. Those who actually put time and effort into capturing and uploading public domain films are not thrilled at the idea of their work being for naught if the Archive is shut down due to blatant copyright violations.
As a matter of fact, requests are regularly posted on this board so that published content that is identified as copyrighted gets removed. Bill himself has posted many such requests, as can be seen from his posting history.

Anyway, I only jumped in because I was under the impression that you thought the Berne Implementation Act of 1988 applied retroactively. Since you are actually well-versed in copyright and intellectual property and don't need any lecturing from me, I'll just crawl back under my favorite rock.

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Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 15, 2011 5:55am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

larus you wrote:
"I don't know that it is completely false. What I do know is that US copyright is determined by US law, not foreign law. And although works published after March 1st, 1989 enjoy automatic US copyright protection for many decades to come, the situation for works published before that date remains a murky mess where copyright notices, registrations, renewals and URAA come into play. The latter case is what most discussions on this board revolve around."

Granted the US only joined the Berne Convention in 1989, a country like Canada however has been a member since 1928. Like the US Canada has it's own Copyright Act, and is not determined by foreign law. Should a case of copyright infringement be brought against a member of the US by a Canadian copyright holder Canadian laws prevail larus.
The Canadian term(s) of "fair dealings" come into play, and not the more lenient "fair use" terms as describe in the US copyright act.
The US is a member of the WTO and the Berne Implementation act, therefore the US is obligated to respect the laws and recognize the copyrights of Works of authors from other signatory countries in the same way as it recognizes the copyrights of its own nationals.

Is it the laws that are murky? Or public perceptions of the laws? After reading what some people have posted in the forums I would argue that it's more public perceptions.

larus you wrote:
"Anyway, I only jumped in because I was under the impression that you thought the Berne Implementation Act of 1988 applied retroactively. Since you are actually well-versed in copyright and intellectual property and don't need any lecturing from me, I'll just crawl back under my favorite rock."

THANK YOU for jumping in! It was my understanding this website was intended to enhance the exchange of thoughts ideas and information.
Your thoughts are always welcome larus.



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Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 14, 2011 2:39pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

hi larus, i've attached a link to this post that explains GATT - WTO in better detail.
The link is not by me, nor is the info on the link me generated.
maybe you could pass the info along to Bill?

http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/fact1_e.htm


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